The Quattro Owners Club

Discussion in 'General Chit Chat' started by beermonster, Jul 11, 2011.

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  1. beermonster Moderator

    The Quattro Owners Club is the main "club" for the Audi Quattro : Audi Ur quattro Owners Club

    Like it or loath it, it's pretty much all there is. Indeed, this forum came about due to internal conflict with the QOC.

    As we've had a number of threads recently, with a good degree of bun-fighting, this thread is intended to actively seek debate on the QOC, and to be a location for forum members to discuss the QOC, warts and all. Try and stay factual, and avoid personnal attacks. Remember there are a few rules to the forum, and they will be enforced.

    Please share your experiences of the QOC, negative or positive.

    Also, if you have a wishlist of what you think the QOC should (or should not) be doing, then add it to here too. Remember that this is an opportunity to raise positives as well as negatives, and also for you to try and influence what the QOC does in the future.
  2. beermonster Moderator

    And I'll start you off with.....

    The QOC needs to update it's website with the "new" chairman details.
  3. Phil Payne Moderator

  4. Phil Payne Moderator

    On a technical note - it's not just on the website itself. The domain registration (which expires this coming February) still has David both as the registrant and the technical contact: - Audi Ur quattro Owners Club
  5. rr quattro Member

    yup i must agree with that to a new up to date website would be great for the club
  6. Benjamino Member

    I haven't renewed my qOC subscription this year based on the fact that I don't think that an emailed scruffily formatted word document once a month justifies the cost to be honest! I have already mentioned this to the folks who run the club. Also, the one event I like to attend which is the Chatsworth Rally Show wasn't at this location this year - I know this is no fault of the qOC, but I don't go to any other qOC events so I don't agree paying for the privilege not to use it.

    If there were a proper, nicely formatted printed monthly newsletter again, I might be more inclined to renew my subs. But until then I am personally more inclined to join 'Sheffield Supercar Club' (which I was recently invited to along to Hope Motor Show and attended) as they have a lot more local events to me and a secure area within their website where there is a lot more information and such like for its members.
  7. Porridge Member

    I was member many years ago. When I took my Ur off the road I eventually let my membership lapse.
    I was looking at the site recently, with the intention of rejoining, but asked myself "why".
    Didnt seem like much benefit, especially with being based in Ireland, and unlikely to meet up with hard assed ur owners in the UK meets.
    Google and the internet have hurt clubs like QOC which dont add that bit of interaction. Most car info can be found online and in forums.
    So, and this question is aimed at everyone.... what would you like to achieve from the existance of a club?
    For me it is being a member of like minded people that can provide advice and guidance from their past experience, but you can get that from a forum.
    Good monthly newsletter would be good, but what content... i dont have that answer.
    List of fixes and parts suppliers....yeah.
    But here is my biggie..... drum roll......
    Grouping together to really promote urqs as a primary desirable classic, and helping the model to achieve the kudos and status it deserves.
    When i bought my ur in 1989 i also considered a 911. I always thought the urq would be a motoring legend and a serious classic. Unfortunatly the Porsche is now considered to be more desirable and collectable ! We know better, but most dont.
    I think that is part of the role of a club.... to promote the interests of the membership.
    I dont get that impression from what i can see of the QoC online.... which is ALL i CAN see.
    Sorry for the rant. I will be cremated and buried in my ur...... but first i have to re-commission her!
    Posted via Mobile Device
  8. Phil Payne Moderator

    Well, the QoC has just tweeted about a car show it's officially going to in Hampshire this coming weekend - just little enough notice to stop any troublemakers attending:

    "We will be at the Elvetham Heath Car Show in Fleet, Hampshire this Sunday 17th July:"

    As a contrast, back in May Classic Audi started organising and publicising a show it's going to a month from now - the thread is here:

    German Classics Car Show - Haigh Hall - Sunday 14 August 2011 - Classic Audi
  9. LYT4X Member

    My first post this year (FWIW), coaxed out of a self-imposed exile from the quattroforum by a reasoned and apparently non-partisan opening post.

    Firstly, putting my cards on the table, I should say that I avoided the QOC for many years as I had heard of politics, problems, elitism and downright dirty-dealing - all from trusted sources which were unrelated to the internet/forums. However, last year I was coaxed into the QOC fold by the promise of a new chairman pushing a new broom. I attended the Rally Show at Chatsworth and was very happy with what I found there. A number of faces were reconciled with forum names and a number of new acquaintances made too. Next came the highlight of the year at Oulton Park which was a superb event worthy of any car club.

    It soon became apparent to me that this was a club with plus and minus points - just like any club I suppose. However, rather than sit on the sidelines and moan, or waste time on forums being a keyboard warrior, I decided to put something into the club in order to get something out of it. The club is split into regions and the area from the Border north to Aberdeenshire/Highland was effectively un-represented. Given that this was the area where I spent most of my free time, I decided to offer my services in grasping the nettle and trying to make something happen as an area representative worthy of the club.

    It’s now a year down the line and this (A1) area has become relatively active with members meeting for various car shows and outings. The membership here has virtually doubled and a number of friendships have been made with and by those members. I don’t think for one minute that this is all my doing – it just needed somebody to get things done and I was fool enough to stick my hand up. It’s certainly not been plain sailing, but the ship is heading in the right direction and as a seasoned (MSA) motor-club person, I can tell you that there are more positives than negatives. The trick is to put something into it rather than sitting on your arse and waiting for it all to come to you.

    So, what’s good about it? Well, the QOC is once again an MSA (Motor Sports Association) affiliated club which brings a wealth of credibility and security in an unsure and litigious world. This may not mean much to some, but it means a lot when you are organising groups of people in cars for events up and down the country. If you don’t get it, look up ‘Public Liability’ and ponder what could happen when unregulated groups of people meet-up in cars in a public place. If you still don’t understand then I’m sorry but I’m not going to explain further here as I will be taking up enough bandwidth already.

    The newsletter is actually very good, though it’s not without issues (excuse the pun). I personally believe that the format is wrong but it’s probably a historical thing which will take time to change. It needs someone to expend lots of time and effort to produce/edit and I know just how much of a task this is – having compiled/edited a motor-club newsletter in the past myself. To compound this with a significant change of format is not something which can be done overnight and it needs input from people who are more inclined to just sit and read and moan rather than get involved in a transition themselves.

    The best thing about the club is being part of something where people have a shared interest and in getting those people out together in their quattro's. There are few things as enjoyable as seeing a group of iconic cars together with enthusiastic owners – be it on a static display at a car show, or running together down a twisty road with a fat quat-arse in front of you and a menacing snake of boxed-arches behind you. Furthermore, sitting together over some food and/or drink with real people/partners and sensible conversation beats the hell out of punching a keyboard and scoring points against people you don’t really know and, if you did, would probably wish to avoid anyway.

    If I had to quantify it, I can say that I haven’t really missed this forum (or a couple of others which I resolved to keep away from at the turn of the year), but I would certainly miss the QOC and the people I’ve met as a result of it. Please don’t mistake this as me having a go at this forum – I most certainly am not. I enjoyed much of the banter on here and I could never be described as one who didn’t take part in it (much to some peoples annoyance I’m sure). But the truth is that the constant point scoring and sycophantism which prevailed was tiresome and it was always the same suspects who seemed to spend their lives behind their curtains with their trousers round their ankles getting their jollies at their own posts. At the end of the day, a forum is simply that – a forum. Like ‘The Matrix’, it exists solely in the mind of those who wish to extend their views and influence beyond their tangible interactive space. It is controlled by a few who may have vested interests or axes to grind and it has no legal structure in the real world. Furthermore, it cannot achieve this legitimately without becoming that which it often seems to despise – a bona fide club with warts and all.

    The fact that this thread exists on the forum points to the suggestion that people actually want a club – it’s just that they want a club their way, and not what’s actually on offer to them. Well, here is a wake-up call. You won’t get it unless you put something in to it. Get a life, step away from the keyboard and find a bigger world on the other side of the glass. It’s exactly the same as complaining about the UK political situation but failing to get out and use your vote. The world doesn’t revolve around you and neither will the QOC. However, you will not change things from the outside by moaning in cyberspace.

    My personal list of improvements for the club would be:

    A new website which is accurate and up to date
    National events publicised well in advance and supported fully by the committee
    Newsletter in Adobe pdf format with less emphasis on regionalism
    e-mail addresses for every member ( to ensure appropriate delivery of the newsletter and to improve inter-club communication (this would also allow the few who don’t have personal e-mail to be brought into the fold)
    Forum for Committee/Area Reps to discuss and co-ordinate planning of events

    Am I going to withhold my membership until someone arrives on my doorstep with all these things tied-up in a pretty bow and a promise that the club will be run my way by someone else? No!

    After a year, I see a club which has some ‘old guard’ who may (or may not) be resisting change and some new blood who don’t necessarily know how to make any changes. As Chairman, John Brignal has done much (despite difficult personal circumstances) to bring the club forward but he is not a one-man army, nor should he be blamed for everything that is wrong. People have to understand that this is not a commercial business with full time staff – everyone is a volunteer and they normally have day-jobs and families and all that goes with that. Anyone who wants to continue to complain about it, especially from the fringes of non-membership, REALLY needs to take a long, hard look at themselves in the mirror and drag their trousers back up to waist height. Perhaps there is an ‘app’ for that?

    To those who have missed my popcorn posts, I should apologise at this point for writing this without the benefit of a bottle of wine and for not having a go at specific individuals directly. I may have lost some flair for this and I’m out of practice…..

    <<Flame-suit still in the cupboard as I really CNGAF if any ‘non-members’ wish to retort to this with as much negative effort>>
  10. Phil Payne Moderator


    "Try and stay factual, and avoid personnal attacks."
  11. rick Member

    I think a constructive post from LYT4X with some valid points
  12. pish-tush Member

    Hear, Hear!

    I suspect though, that the mindset of the most argumentative or non-proactive, negatively inclined will immediately fail to understand (possibly by choice) all that John has written.
  13. rr quattro Member

    All good and valid points John hell wish i could write like that. i havent been in the forum long but have had the privilage to meet some great people the forum itself has helped me greatly in many ways
    problems with my car and how to fix them, and also sorcing parts which seam almost in most cases to be NLA wish i could speak fluid German and had the time i would have been at Audi main office asking why spares are not available for people in the UK.
    ( think some one posted this before, and Audi in Germany commented why havent people in the UK been asking for spares for their cars ) is this true ?
  14. Phil Payne Moderator

    Well, we disagree over the Newsletter. I think it's obsolete and should be abandoned, and I've thought so ever since I first said so in a committee meeting over a decade ago.

    A long time ago, a torque value of 132 lb ft ('but a bit tighter doesn't hurt') was published in the Technical Toolbox. Obviously that should be 332 lb ft - almost three times as much. I called David Preece and the author to point out the error and request a correction. David refused, saying no one read it anyway.

    I believe that - as a direct result of that error - we lost two MB engines at a combined cost of £5,000 to their owners.

    Even if a correction had been published, how many owners would have been conscientious enough to amend their file copy?

    And I most certainly believe .pdf is the wrong format - that would make it unchangeable for almost all recipients.

    That was the original reason for Audi ur-quattro Torque Wrench Settings - which has had 48 updates since then. I was very disappointed to see a plagiarised copy - containg some one-year-old errors - printed in the Newsletter some time ago.

    Twelve years ago I was awake to what the Club could do on the web. The website was fiercely resisted by David - perhaps because it represented a loss of editorial control. Today we have no choice - Twitter, Facebook and now Google+ are here whether we like it or not.
  15. Phil Payne Moderator

    The forum is not related to the Club in any way.

    Absolutely true, but a long time ago. It was Herr Dr Frank who took me aside at the factory 20 year celebrations and asked that question. I'm not persuaded that anything has changed formally, although John Johnson occasionally reposts emails from Audi Tradition.
  16. rick Member

    I think its very negative of any club or organisation to neglect their web presence, certainly in my own respect the car hire business wouldnt function without it and we will shortly launch a full ecommerce site for our tyre business, I have a meeting with the provider tomorrow, its not difficult to get a competitively priced website but it does need someone to take charge of it.

    I am not a member of the QOC so am reluctant to suggest or heavily criticise but it appears that they do need to do something!

    If you google anything quattro related it always brings up Phils site and it was certainly that which attracted me here when I first bought the ashes to ashes car, I looked at the QOC but couldnt see what I was getting for my membership if I joined, I emailed a inquiry but never received a response.
  17. SorenR Member

    My experience also... It's the same paradox as with businesses. Just because people can start and grow a club/business, it does not mean they can run it long term.

    I was careless and got elected Vice Chairman of Audi club Denmark early this year. The existing board with a few execptions are from West Denmark and most of them have been involved since the beginning (1997). Myself and two other boardmembers (Press Officer and Event Manager) are from East Denmark and we are pushing to change/modernize a lot of things including resolving some annoying problems with our forum and a very similar problem with our frontpage as QOC. It's basically up-hill most of the time.

    We will succeed, eventually, but our members have no clue of the politics going on internally to resolve the problems. One issue is the "it works as it is, why change" attitude... We've grown to 1.000+ members, it's not a small club anymore - people want more!

    I am the "IT Officer" and one thing that really bug's be is that we (AcD) have the capital to engage a professional web-dude to do "stuff" but we are stuck with having a member do this in his spare time, which he does not really have any of due to work and travel... Member management is done with spreadsheets and is as such ineffective and require excessive manpower, plus, if our Finance Officer should drop dead (God forbid it) we will have a major problem - thus we are pushing to enter "the cloud".

    Moneywise we are a strong club, annual income is close to £ 33.000 and we spend close to £ 29.000 on events. The summerparty (2-day event) alone usually account for £ 10.000 and this year we've registered 82 Audi's and 200 humans attending.

    With 1.000+ members and 3.000+ followers one would expect more people were interested in "lending a hand" to move things around - unfortunately not... However they have no problem pointing out the problems...
  18. Phil Payne Moderator

    Same happened to me at the UK Computer Measurement Group. My sympathy.
  19. Porridge Member

    Hi LYT4X

    WOW. What a superb post. seriously !
    Much of what you say is insightful and accurate. More posts which evangalise the QoC Membership benefits would indeed help attract members to/back to the QoC.

    Your list of improvements for the club is well considered, but, is this just YOUR personal proposal.... or is there any plan for such club development? and if so, how does the club communicate that the club is moving onwards and upwards to non-members / prospective members?

    As I mentioned in my previous post, purely going by WHAT I CAN ACTUALLY SEE, (without the benefit of newsletters or membership letters) I don't see from the public face of the club - the website - what I would get for my membership fee. Bare in mind that I have been out of the QoC for over 10 years and only joined the forum recently.

    While on the subject of the fee, most clubs, be they Golf or Sailing or otherwise, tend to have Overseas Membership rates which are reflective of the fact that overseas members will not have the opportunity to gain what you point out is a primary reason to be a member...... the meets and club events. So, rather than being more expensive, should it not be lower?
    I presume this is a carryover from the good old days of Snail-Mail overseas postal costs, before the internet and email pervaded every home in the northern hemisphere. Your suggestion of the PDF Newsletter would sort that out.

    But, am I just sitting around with my trousers around my ankles? In all honesty I couldn't entirely say "no", but with very genuine reasons for not being in a position to "grab the nettle and be a force for improvement", so I will join in as I can, and we have to accept that very many people will similarly be unable to commit to being in a position to Reliably and Consistently engage.

    "The fact that this thread exists on the forum points to the suggestion that people actually want a club".......... I'd say you are spot on, But "– it’s just that they want a club their way, and not what’s actually on offer to them.".... may not be the best way to put it.

    In an effort to broaden the membership base and attract as many into (back to) the fold as possible, has the committee considered introducing simple membership options (say £10 to start with, or £10 associate membership for people that do not have a urq, and £20 for people that do have a ur and may receive knowledge benefit from membership), then adding another £20 for those who want a printed newsletter and postal communications rather than electronic. Rather than apportioning a further amount of the membership fee towards Public Liability Insurance, could there not simply be a nominal attendance fee (£5 or £10) for each event / meet, or again have a £10 or £20Events membership option (which includes the mandatory QoC Events window sticker).
    The concept of "One size fits all" has all but disappeared in the modern world, yet people will pay for what they want. If you want to bring your suitcase on the plane.... thats extra. If you want a firewall and PC optimisation tools with your Anti Virus, that costs a bit more.

    BUT, I keep coming back to the Public Face of the QoC.... the website.
    I read the list of benefits, such as Technical Toolbox, but there isn't anything suggesting a Login to a members section for accessing anything. There is a statement "Over the years, the club has developed an extensive quattro knowledge base", but no link to it. Kind of makes you think that it's there, but not really.

    My congratulations to John Brignal for his achievements so far, and to the Local Organisers, like yourself, who really make the club a groundforce to enjoy. But, and I make no appologies for this (well maybe for my spelling), in the absence of a Local Club element, the forum provides the information and knowledge and peer interaction that I need. It is just a pity that the forum wasn't initially conceived and organised by the QoC Committee and formed an integral benefit of QoC Membership.
  20. Phil Payne Moderator

    'Secret Squirrel' areas on websites are disappearing very quickly. What is the benefit of excluding people who might just have the answer or spare part you want?

    What is the point, indeed, of excluding anyone?
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